Marc Kielburger is co-author of Me to We, Finding Meaning in a Material World. He is also an accomplished social advocate and leadership specialist, a best-selling author, and a popular speaker. He is the chief executive director of Free the Children, the world’s largest network of children, helping children through education. Marc is also the Co-Founder and Chief Executive Director of Leaders Today, a world-renowned youth leadership training organization. With the determination to protect the environment, Marc first became socially involved when he was 13 years old. He went on to serve as a Parliamentary Page in the Canadian House of Commons, work with AIDS patients in the slums of Bangkok, and volunteered in Kenya, where he helped local women establish a fair trade cooperative. Marc is a Harvard graduate and a Rhodes Scholar. He graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard University, having completed a degree in international relations. After winning a coveted Rhodes scholarship, he went on to complete a law degree at Oxford University with an emphasis on Human Rights Law. His work has been featured on The Oprah Winfrey Show, CNN, 60 Minutes, BBC and has been profiled in numerous newspapers and magazines.
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KE: You wrote this book with your brother Craig, the founder of Free the Children. How did the two of you come to share this passion for human rights and making the world a better place?
MK: We got involved in human rights issues from a very young age. Both our parents were teachers, and from early on they instilled in us core values of understanding local and global issues, and developing the social conscience to become active. Understanding and talking about social issues around the dinner table with our parents and having these conversations while encouraging us to reach out made a huge difference.
“Me to We” is a reflection of our journey and what we have been able to accomplish as an organization. It’s not only a book, but also a movement. It has done very well and just recently hit the New York Times’ best sellers list. Most important for us is how we are creating a movement of professionals, young people, educators and parents who are engaged in these acts of we thinking, volunteerism, and community service to create that world we want to see.
KE: Tell us briefly about Free the Children and your other organization, Leaders Today. What is the primary aim of each organization?
MK: Free the Children is the world’s largest network of children helping children. We founded the organization 12 years ago. We engage young people in development issues and have built over 450 schools around the world. We have more than 40,000 kids that go to the schools and benefit from clean water, health, and medical programs. We provide young people with the opportunity to have an education and break the cycle of poverty.
Leaders Today is the youth leadership wing of what we do. The focus of Free the Children is on developing countries, whereas Leaders Today focuses in North America. We engage young people in fundraising and non-fundraising activities. They can do travel abroad programs. We take about 1,000 students overseas to volunteer in places like Kenya, India, Ecuador and rural China to build schools. We also engage families to provide concrete volunteer opportunities. In Canada we work with about 350,000 young people, mostly high school students, every year, teaching them the importance of volunteerism and providing them with the skills and tools they need to become engaged in service.
KE: Corporate social responsibility is somewhat in vogue. We see headlines about companies going green, communicating the use of fair trade practices and doing more to support their communities. What led to the increased attention on this topic?
MK: It is a trend whose time has come. It will be the companies who are not doing these things a few years from now who are going to be frowned upon. In terms of CSR (corporate social responsibility), if you look at the statistics, you’ll see that the companies that are involved in CSR are making more money and doing better than the others. Cowan Corporate Citizen Group out in the United States did some studies and looked specifically at how important CSR is to the average North American consumer and worker. They found that 80% of those surveyed said that corporate commitment to social issues wins their trust in the company. Eighty-one percent reported that it has affected their decision about where to work.
Since people are working more hours, the ability to build community and spend additional time with loved ones isn’t there so people look for meaning and purpose through their work. Seventy percent of those surveyed claimed that it influenced their decisions about where to invest. Eight-six percent suggested that they would switch from one brand to another of the same price or quality if that brand was associated with a cause. It is not in vogue because it is a trend; it is going to become the norm. A study in Business Ethics magazine showed that it is the companies who are engaged in CSR now who will win in the long run.
KE: I am reminded of a presentation by Margaret Wheatley, who talked about how we are experiencing “a crisis of meaning” in epidemic proportions. Much of your book is about helping individuals and organizations find meaning in those busy workdays.
MK: People want to figure out how to find meaning, true happiness and success. These are big concepts that need to be addressed in every fundamental aspect of one’s life. Not only the spiritual or family aspects, but also through one’s work environment. If one’s work environment isn’t able to provide individuals with meaning, people will seek out one that does. The book offers specific things for people to do to incorporate the concept of we thinking into their lives.
KE: What can corporations do to be more socially responsible?
MK: They first need to acknowledge that CSR is not going to go away and that every company needs to address it at some level. I have had the privilege of traveling around the world and talking about we thinking. What’s going on in Europe now is staggering. Corporate social responsibility has become the norm and companies are starting to make a big difference. They are becoming more green, more employee centric, more responsible to their shareholders and more responsible to human rights. For those who want to further the CSR program at their company, undertake a survey of the stakeholders to find out which causes they care about and then align the brand with the cause. Look at safe and important causes but also some of the more unorthodox ones that are necessary, like global poverty or environmental degradation.
KE: You mentioned environmental and human rights issues. Are there any other dimensions of corporate social responsibility that companies should be considering?
MK: There is so much work to be done on the environmental issue, whether it be conducting environmental audits or incorporating post consumer recycling paper, etc. Human rights are fundamental. There is also the human aspect of engaging employees in issues that matter, engaging stakeholders at a local level, and being able to offer opportunities for employees to be part of the solution. The last element of CSR is being able to communicate this philosophy and what you are doing in the larger world to your stakeholders.
KE: Why don’t more organizations take a more active role in CSR?
MK: There are a couple of reasons. One is that companies think that nobody will notice and that nobody really cares. Another is that they believe CSR is viewed as a PR stunt and that they are using CSR to get free media without advertising. But if you look a little further on these issues you can see the true ramifications of not being engaged in CSR.
Nike Corporation is a good example. Nike is now one of the leading corporate citizens, but 10 years ago, that wasn’t the case. They were challenged with allegations of sweatshop abuse, unfair labor practices and issues about unions. They received a lot of negative media. They thought nobody would notice, but a lot of people did. Back then, Nike stock fell from $76 to less than $53 a share. This cost its shareholders a paper loss of $5 billion.
Even though Nike is now doing the right thing, there are still thousands of young people who will never buy Nike products because they feel that their trust in the company was abused. Even though Nike has really tried to make a statement as a good corporate social citizen, many people still feel that they didn’t do the right thing when they should have. This is an example and a warning to companies. Doing the right thing is not only important because of one’s public image, but also because people, especially idealistic young people, vote through ballots and also with their wallets. People will vote with their credit cards saying, “I support this company not only because I like its products, but also because I believe in what they stand for.”
KE: Are there any other reasons why organizations may not be jumping on the bandwagon?
MK: A lot of companies aren’t sure where to start. They want to get engaged, they care and are made up of really good people with big hearts but they are not sure what to do. Me to We addresses this with studies, information and best practices.
KE: Do you see certain industries, parts of the country, or the world that seem to be doing a better job than others?
MK: Europe is doing a great job and there are certain companies that always do a good job. The Body Shop or Ben and Jerry’s are always held up as examples. There are also some companies in more challenging environments, like the mining or energy sectors, that are also reaching out. Alcan is a big Canadian company that is doing some great work. Business Ethics Magazine is a great resource for this. They document the companies at the forefront, and those that aren’t.
When a company figures out that they want to get engaged, there are very specific steps to take. The first is to recognize the benefits. The most important benefit from the HR point of view is providing a way for employees to find greater meaning in their jobs. This will help employee morale and retention. It will help to attract great people to the company. It is also a way for employees to talk about issues they care about and understand what employees are doing in the community.
KE: How can someone in HR present information about CSR to senior management to help secure their buy in for new initiatives?
MK: The most important thing to do is conduct research to find out what your competitors are doing, what the trends are in the marketplace, and what is most effective for the company, stakeholders, and employees. We have had companies do targeted surveys to look at the issues people care about, organizations and communities with which they most identify and what they are already doing in their spare time. Put together a presentation showing the data and your recommendations to help move the CSR program forward.
KE: The Gallup organization has a lot of information about the cost of low employee engagement. You could link to some of that secondary research as well.
MK: Go to http://www.metowe.org. The most compelling piece of research I have ever come across comes from the University of Ottawa. It did a study through its business management program called The Payoff of Work without Pay. They looked at medium-sized corporations that were engaged in community service and had company-sponsored volunteer programs. These companies increased annual earnings by 6 - 7%. They looked good in the community, built brand recognition and were able to link community service programs to the bottom line.
KE: What can I do as an individual who simply wants to effect change, either for myself or within my department or team? What are some things I can do to make a difference?
MK: One suggestion is to participate in volunteer acts. Give employees opportunities that will provide capacity and meaning. It helps if the company can offer financial support to those organizations to build that solidarity. Hire individuals who have volunteerism and community focus. Look for people who are really well rounded. I had the privilege of going to Harvard University. The last time I looked, 30% of the people who applied had perfect SAT scores. Of those 30%, very few actually got in because they were not well rounded enough. Here is an example of one of the best universities in the world, passing on people who have the perfect stuff on paper, because they want people who are well rounded and engaged in the community. Companies can learn from this example. It’s about being able to choose issues that your company cares about, and choosing individuals who are engaged in the community.
On a grassroots level there are some very simple things you can do. One is to post community issues and volunteer opportunities on your company’s website or start a fund-raising campaign. Free The Children has had individuals start fund-raising drives at their companies to help build schools in places like Kenya. It takes about $10,000 to build a one-room classroom. It’s not a lot of money. Implement a Lunch to Learn program where you invite individuals from the community to your corporation and have a brown bag lunch where the speaker and a group of employees can talk about issues. Learn which non-profit boards people are sitting on and get more involved with them.
KE: Please describe the two kinds of happiness that you write about in your book.
MK: We have learned that there are two types of happiness: hedonic and eudemonic. The first, hedonic, is a short high of happiness. It happens when people get a gift or a tasty dessert ,or they go and buy a new pair of shoes. For 15 or 20 minutes they are ecstatic. But a short while later, the happiness wears off. It’s not the type of happiness that fills the soul or the spirit. Psychologists see eudemonic happiness as much more long-term. It’s brought on when you nurture the soul and the spirit. It’s experienced when you volunteer or spend time with loved ones. It’s reaching out to others and finding a type of happiness that is more fulfilling.
The World Value Survey is one of the most interesting social science surveys ever done. It asked people how happy they were. The happiest people in the world were in Nigeria, followed by people in Latin America. The United States ranked 16th on the list. Even though we have so much, we are not fundamentally happy. The World Value Survey and other experiments have shown that even though we have so much stuff, it’s hedonic happiness, not happiness of the soul. If we are going to find legacy and fulfillment we have to reach outwards. We have to engage others and find the spirit that’s uplifting. This is done through community service, volunteerism and spending time with loved ones.
KE: You mention three goals that are closely linked with overall life satisfaction and happiness. What are they?
MK: Psychologists that have studied happiness have identified these three goals that are linked to life satisfaction:
1. Intimacy and reciprocal relationships. Being able to reach out and build meaningful bonds.
2. Spirituality. From religion, beliefs or ethics.
3. Commitment to future generations. To see beyond the present.
Money does not equal happiness. People think that if they had an extra million dollars they would be so much happier. The result is that you might be a little happier but it depends on how you use that money and how you are able to employ it as a resource to evoke change. Oprah Winfrey bucks this trend. She is a remarkable CEO and leader. She uses her money and power for good. A fundamental purpose for her is not making money for the sake of making money, but rather making money to be able to evoke positive change.
We found that if you are able to develop meaningful relationships, a level of spirituality and a commitment to future generations, you will find the soul-filling type of happiness. You will create a legacy. This can be done in the work environment by linking one’s work with meaning and purpose. It might mean working for a company that is helping to invest in future generations or one that is making huge investments in the community. It’s that type of purpose and meaning that is missing in so many people’s work lives.
KE: When I interviewed Jim Kouzes, a noted leadership expert, he said, “People commit to causes not to plans.” This stuck with me and could help explain why we see so many employees feeling disengaged in their workplaces. Business plans, for the sake of making more money, really don’t hold any juice for people. They are looking for something that matters on an emotional level.
MK: I can’t agree more and it’s the job of HR to convince the senior management of how important it is and then to implement it. If HR does it well, then you have higher employee morale, higher retention and it’s going to be a lot easier to find and keep really good people.
KE: What are your favorite stories of people adopting the Me to We philosophy within their companies?
MK: We have consulted with companies that have done some amazing things. One is National Bank Financial in Canada. It really engages employees on a grassroots level to care about social issues. Another is The Body Shop. Anita Roddick, the founder, is an amazing visionary. If you hear her speak about these issues, you are absolutely convinced. I think it is remarkable that The Body Shop provides its employees with a half-day of paid volunteer time every month. This is a company that is leading the way through its commitment to social involvement on a community level, but also through its ethical pricing and ethical practices as well. A third is LensCrafters. It did a survey to identify the issues it cared about as a company and developed a program called The Gift of Sight. It was established in 1988 and is still very active. They have collected close to two million pairs of glasses and have given them to underprivileged communities around the world. Its employees are engaged and the company has raised millions of dollars for the Gift of Sight program. LensCrafters has been ranked by Fortune magazine as one of the 100 best places to work in North America for the last five years.
KE: You are the founder of Leaders Today. What are your messages to young current and future leaders about what it takes to lead?
MK: We work with tens of thousands of young people, especially in high schools, across Canada. We ask them to focus on this motto: “We are the generation that we have been waiting for.” You don’t have to wait until you are 28, 48 or 108 to change the world. We focus on how important education is, both formal and informal. Even though both of my parents are teachers, some of the best education I had was outside the classroom in volunteering and service learning. We empower young people to care about issues that are important to them. We want them to do some soul searching and we focus on positive role models. HR professionals can create opportunities for employees to mentor young people in the community. The next generation of youth is either highly engaged or completely apathetic. If we can lead young people and provide them with the skills and the tools to get engaged, there will be a higher percentage of those kids who will want to make a difference.
KE: What do you notice about today’s youth and their perceptions of leadership that are different than the older generations?
MK: We see that young people want to get involved and they know that change can happen, but they know it won’t happen if they rely on others. For example, a child will die of poverty every two seconds while our world will spend $18 billion on makeup this year. According to the United Nations, it will take an additional $17 billion (that is less than the makeup budget) to end malnutrition for every kid. In North America we will spend $17 billion on dog and cat food whereas it will only take an additional $11 or $12 billion for every child in the world to go to school. Kids see these things and understand that a difference can be made but they can’t do it by themselves. The voice of youth is becoming stronger and stronger. Billions of dollars is spent advertising to kids because that is the best way to get to their parents. If there is a way to engage kids at a young age, they will not only be able to change their lives, but they will also change their parents’ lives, hopefully for the better, on the social issues.
KE: Do you have any other suggestions to help people make better choices?
MK: Absolutely. Find work that is rewarding. Find the things that people care about. Find their passion. Engage in shameless idealism. Every day 40,000 kids go to school because of the work we do. Also, support ethical companies that are making a difference. The top question we get from students is, “How do I know that what I am buying is made ethically?” You don’t know. There aren’t many good evaluation procedures out there. We have started our own socially responsible clothing line. It is fair trade, sweatshop and child labor free, and most of the products are made from organic cotton or bamboo, which are recyclable, reliable resources. What we see through the me to we style is a huge need for companies to be innovative and a tremendous desire for individuals to support these companies.
We encourage people to buy ethically and to ask the tough questions. This website was started by a group that is involved in the United Nations: http://www.thehungersite.org. It is free. Every day you go on the site and click on the icon of the advertisers. By clicking on the icon, you feed a person for free. A person in Africa gets their breakfast because you took the three seconds out of your day to click an icon.
There are so many simple things that one can do as an individual or as a parent. We say it takes 10 minutes a day to change the world, whether it is reading the newspaper as a family, volunteering together or by introducing your kids to social issues from a young age. Every chapter in our book has statistics and actions to take. We did this because we want to offer as much support as possible for people who want to incorporate this into their lives.
KE: Your organization does amazing work in the world, yet the needs are ever present. Do you ever get those days where it just all seems like too much?
MK: Sure. When you are in Africa and you see that we will spend a trillion dollars this year on the military and it only takes a few billion dollars to help prevent starvation in the communities you care about, it is discouraging. You have to continue working on it. You can’t give up because it’s hard. I encourage HR professionals to engage employees in these issues because it is the right thing to do. If we don’t, who will?
KE: What do you think causes the apathy? What gets in the way for people who sense this is important, but just aren’t making the effort?
MK: The Canadian Centre for Philanthropy studies why people do or do not get engaged. They did a survey and found that the number one reason people become engaged is because they were asked to. It sounds so basic but a lot of people don’t get engaged because they have never been asked. I also think people are apathetic because they are overwhelmed. They feel that they can’t make a difference and they don’t know what to do with the little time they have.
Leaders Today (http://www.leaderstoday.com) is our youth leadership program. We take young people overseas during the summer and spring break to volunteer. It’s an incredible opportunity for them to reach out and build bonds of friendship. We also do corporate and family trips. Metowestyle is our ethically made organic clothing line. It’s child labor free, sweatshop free, and is a social enterprise that supports the work of Free the Children in a very significant way. Fifty percent of the profits support Free the Children activities and the balance goes back to support the enterprise. This is a way for people to do the right thing and support the work of a great charity.
KE: Any final thoughts that you would like to share?
MK: Taking this information about Corporate Social Responsibility back to one’s executive team is not easy. It takes courage. If you really care about these issues, just try to do your best to find the courage and commitment to have those difficult conversations and to lead the way. I believe that a year or two from now, when your company has an aggressive CSR program with great employee morale and your people are doing great work in the community and beyond, you will be happy you did.
If you’ve enjoyed this discussion with Marc Kielburger, we invite you to read Me to We, Finding Meaning in a Material World. Or, visit www.metowe.org or www.leaderstoday.com, or www.metowestyle.com for more information.
